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Legislative Effectiveness & State Government Committee

Meeting Summaries

Fall Forum
November 2007

Meeting Session:	Legislative Compensation:  Too Hot to Handle?
Overview & Presenters:	Legislator salaries vary from nothing (New Mexico) to over $100,000 (California) and everything in between.  The pay rate obviously affects the ability to attract top-notch candidates, but most legislators consider it “political death” to vote for a raise.  Per diem rates and expense reimbursements can be increased, but this may be just sidestepping the real pay raise issue.  Many states are also looking at legislative staff salaries, making both internal comparisons among the various staff positions and external studies to compare legislative jobs with other similar work in the public, private and nonprofit sectors. Moderator:  Tara Perkinson, Journal Clerk, Senate, Virginia Presenters:  Representative Kathy Tingelstad, Minnesota Lorne J. Malkiewich, Director, Legislative Counsel Bureau, Nevada Karl Kurtz, Director, Trust for Representative Democracy, NCSL, Colorado Alan Doman, Vice Chair, Citizens’ Commission on Salaries for Elected Officials, Washington
Summary:	Tara Perkinson opened the session and stated that the purpose of the session was to look for solutions, not loopholes, to the challenges of setting legislator and staff salaries.  The panelists will address why these salaries have been so hard to change and what strategies have proved effective.  Tara also mentioned the link between a fair and competitive salary and the quality of candidates who will come forward.  Lastly, she noted that any effort to raise legislative salaries will have to develop a media message designed to persuade citizens who may have an instinctive negative reaction to pay increases. Karl Kurtz provided an overview and some historical context for legislative compensation.  Legislator pay varies widely among the states from no or almost no salary to $130,000 in California.  This wide variance correlates closely to factors such as the type of legislature (full or part time), length of session, number and pay levels of staff, and population of the state.  Looking over the last 25 years, any increases in compensation for state legislators have merely kept up with inflation.  While legislators in states like California, New York and Massachusetts can really make a living from being a lawmaker, those in states like New Hampshire are disproportionately represented by retirees and recent college graduates, which indicates that many cannot afford to become legislators. Representative Kathy Tingelstad related the story of trying to convince a bright young school board member to run for the Minnesota legislature, where the salary is around $40,000.  Ultimately, after much discussion, the potential recruit decided she just couldn’t afford to be a legislator.  Kathy said that this is part of what is causing an over-representation among the retirees and recent grads, but too few in the critical 30-50 year old range.  This group is in their prime income-earning years.  This is critical because many of the key state budget items, such as K-12 and higher education, health and human services, have a significant impact on people in that age range.  States need to have them directly involved in the decision-making.  As legislatures grapple with complex issues, global competition, technology and an aging workforce, it is important that they have highly qualified legislators of all political beliefs on hand to craft the best legislative solutions.  Further, in Minnesota there are eight lobbyists for each legislator, and the time demands are great.  When legislators leave legislative service, they often can triple their salaries in either the executive branch or the lobbying world.  To preserve the balance of power and ensure a strong and vital legislative branch, legislatures have to provide compensation that will allow the best and the brightest to serve.  Lorne Malkiewich described his perspective on legislative staff compensation.  As the Nevada staff director, he sees first hand the need to have a staff that can hold their own vis a vis the executive branch and the lobby.  You need to pay your staff at a level that is similar with the levels offered by organizations that are competing with you for employees.  Lorne noted that Alaska legislative staff had just hired NCSL to study the compensation of their employees, with an eye to setting salaries that were competitive with comparable jobs in other branches of government and nonprofit organizations, as well as being internally consistent. Even if you don’t hire NCSL or someone else to do a large-scale study, legislative staff directors can have their own research staff gather information to help make salary decisions.  Lorne urged directors to create a compensation plan and then build the persuasive case to defend that plan.  You need to develop your arguments quietly, but thoroughly.  If you try to hide a compensation overhaul, the media will smell blood and react negatively.  It’s best to be open, yet low key.  You need to be clear about the effect compensation has on recruiting and retaining quality staff and the role that quality staff play in legislative policymaking. Lorne noted that you determine if you have a compensation problem through your turnover statistics and your exit interviews with staff who leave your office.  He also described the number of options that directors can use outside of compensation to make legislative service attractive, such as flex time, comp time, telecommuting and day care. Lastly he encouraged everyone to remember the value of genuine praise to a staffer for a job well done. Alan Doman described the process and rationale for the state of Washington’s Citizens’ Commission on Salaries for Elected Officials.  The commission is designed to set salaries based on realistic standards and create a fair and equitable salary system.  Washington struggled to set salaries for elected officials in the 1970s and early ‘80s, but in 1986 they created an independent commission to set salaries of officials in the executive, legislative and judicial branches.  The commission is a 16-citizen body, with nine members selected at random from the rolls of registered voters.  The other seven represent specific fields, such as personnel management, law and business.  The commission holds orientation and planning sessions, conducts public meetings, and uses a point factor analysis designed to measure things like knowledge and skills necessary for a job, mental demands and accountability.  Alan described some of the key “lessons learned” in their experience: It is more palatable to make regular small salary adjustments than large “keep-up” increases. You need a solid rationale for even the small increases. Commissioners serve staggered terms.  This works a lot better to have continuity so that you always have some experienced commissioners.  The learning curve can be steep. In setting salaries and in establishing your rationale for decisions, you have to separate performance from duties. The public input in the process has been disappointing.
Meeting Session:	Committee Business Meeting
Overview & Presiding Officer:	Committee officers and members discussed plans for committee sessions at the Spring Forum 2008 and committee outreach options. Presiding Officers: Committee Chair Representative Kathy Tingelstad, Minnesota, and Staff Chair Tara Perkinson, Virginia
Summary:	The committee made plans for sessions for four available time slots at the upcoming 2008 Spring Forum April 22-26.  The committee sessions will likely take place Friday, April 25.  The approved sessions are: Mentoring: Getting Good Guidance.  This is the first step for a committee theme on legislative training.  In this session, we will discuss mentoring programs for both legislators and staff, addressing questions like:     -How do you make the programs practical and valuable?      -How do you make time for mentoring in the busiest periods of the session?       -What’s the best way to match mentors and protégés? The Legislator/Citizen Connection.  This is the first step for a committee theme on citizen engagement.  Leaving the technology aspect for the Annual Meeting, this Spring Forum session focuses on understanding how best to communicate with constituents, and educating constituents on how best to communicate with you.  Also, once you decide what kind of communication is best for you and your constituents, how do you take control and make that communication a reality? Making the Most of the Interim.  When you’re in the heat of the legislative session, the interim period seems like an oasis that legislators and staff can use to relax and recharge.  As legislatures are asked to do more and more in short legislative sessions, the interim has become an integral time when legislatures can address the tougher complicated issues and seek wider public input.  This committee session explores how legislatures are making better strategic use of the interim period. Committee Business Meeting.  The committee officers and members will finalize plans for the 2008 Annual Meeting committee sessions. The committee also preliminarily identified possible session themes for the 2008 Annual Meeting: Filling the Void: Institutionalizing Legislative Training (part 2) Citizen Engagement (part 2, includes technology) Technology (statewide, streamlining and overall efficiency issues, possible joint session with the Communications, Financial Services and Interstate Commerce Committee) Ethics Public/Private Partnerships Media Training Understanding At-will Employment The final segment of the meeting addressed the desire to reach out to the members of the committee who are unable to travel.  The officers want to develop more meaningful opportunities to participate in committee activities for those who cannot attend NCSL meetings.  The officers discussed possible options and the challenges of web casts, blogs and similar types of outreach during the legislative session.  The officers decided that a good first step would be to survey all the committee members regarding their preferences on methods and topics for the outreach effort.  They also agreed that we would benefit from sharing the lessons learned from the presentations and work we’ve done so far.  Finally, they decided to try two outreach efforts before the 2008 Annual Meeting.
Meeting Session:	Taking on the Tough Stuff
Overview & Presenters:	Legislatures often fail to deal with the big, difficult, thorny issues, commonly finding legislative time consumed by relatively minor issues that have some vocal proponents.  One of the top measures of a legislative leader may be his or her ability to keep the legislature on track to deal thoughtfully and responsibly with those priority issues.  How can states make progress on the topics that really matter, particularly in short-session legislatures or where legislators have other full-time jobs?  How much is this a factor of political courage and how much is time management?  Is there a more proactive role for staff to play to help legislatures identify and remain focused on the big issues? Moderator: Erica Warren, Committee Staff Administrator, Kentucky Presenters:  Senator Jack Hatch, Iowa Representative David Clark, House Majority Leader, Utah, Chair of NCSL’s Standing Committees Bob Lang, Director, Legislative Fiscal Bureau, Wisconsin
Summary:	Erica Warren moderated the session and began by noting that tests of leadership are often unexpected.  Education funding challenges are a recent example in Kentucky and they test the mettle of legislative leaders.  Although challenges may not be anticipated, leaders can develop courage, prioritization and a reassuring attitude to help them in whatever hurdles come their way.  Erica introduced the other panelists. Representative David Clark began by noting how quickly knowledge is expanding.  We are now at the point where knowledge in the world has doubled in the last 18 months.  In this context, skilled leaders find a way to get all of the relevant information out into the open.  You help convince the relevant parties to be willing and capable of sharing their views.  The leader has to find his or her North Star, the core values that guide one’s moral compass, and use that as a template to lead on any issue.  David noted that the good leader has to blend facts and stories, to explain how legislation will affect people.  The leadership element comes with listening strategically and encouraging others to share their facts and stories, setting that climate for the free flow of information. Bob Lang addressed the role of staff in helping the legislature deal with tough issues.  He directs an agency that helps the legislature’s Joint Committee on Finance create the state’s budget.  First, it is critical for staff to assist decision makers, not make decisions.  It sounds fundamental, but it is critical that you hire people who truly are comfortable with this approach.  Next, the leaders need to articulate their goals to staff.  There may be competing goals, but staff need to know what the leaders want to accomplish in order to help keep the overall work on track, particularly on projects as immense as creating a biennial budget.  Third, staff have to fight the natural staff tendency to respond to requests with quantity.  Legislators, often not wanting to appear ungrateful, seldom tell the staff that the work product wasn’t on the mark.  The key is focus, often helped by an honest discussion between a legislator and staffer about what the legislator really needs.  Fourth, staff need to be willing to help legislators when they want to change the status quo.  The first response shouldn’t be a recitation of all the pitfalls, although the staffer has to point out potential problems.  Rather, the staffer has to adopt an attitude of being open and really working to help the legislator accomplish his or her goals.  At the core, the legislator/staff relationship is built on trust and both sides are responsible for developing that. Senator Jack Hatch described a project in Iowa to address problems related to affordable health care insurance plans.  The issue is the top current domestic issue.  Senator Hatch and Representative Ro Foege are co-chairing a legislative commission of 29 members that includes 10 legislators and representatives of insurers, doctors, nurses, hospitals, dentists and other stakeholders, plus key state agency officials.  The commission first gathered a tremendous amount of data, which has been important in helping the group focus on real problems, not myths.  For example, 81% of Iowa’s uninsured work, many at two or more jobs.  The commission went through a number of strategic planning exercises early on, which helped the commissioners identify the guiding principles for their work.  The bi-partisan commission unanimously identified eight principles, and those have helped shape the commission’s work since then.  The commission then identified the key issue areas (such as containing costs, expanding health care coverage for all Iowans and establishing purchasing pools) and the subcommittees have been actively developing their conclusions.  The process has been aided by a series of public hearings convened by two former Iowa governors, one Democrat and one Republican.  Throughout their work, the co-chairs have stressed a consensus approach and have reached out to have each commissioner play a significant role in the work.  They have used a facilitator and sought to establish an informal, but hardworking approach to the task.  The commission should finish up its work in the next month.  Among the lessons learned is the enormous time commitment necessary to lead in this area.  Even with a very dedicated set of commissioners and staff, the co-chairs have to spend a lot of time in meetings, with the media and in discussions to make sure the subcommittee work is on track.
Meeting Session:	Can We Talk:
Overview & Presenters:	Ask veteran legislators and staff how their legislature has changed and you’re likely to hear about how collegiality, civility and humor are disappearing from the scene.  There is a sense that highly pitched campaigns, sharp partisan divides, strict ethics requirements and the time demands on legislators are all playing a part in this change in the legislative culture.  Although many wish they could return to a more relaxed legislative atmosphere, there is a sense that it won’t be easy to change things.  This session explored how to reinvigorate your legislature. Moderator: Jeffrey Finch, Deputy Clerk, House of Delegates, Virginia Presenters:   Representative Rob Eissler, Texas Representative Rosie Berger, Wyoming Lana Oleen, President, Lana Oleen Consulting Services, Former Senate Majority Leader, Kansas
Summary:	Jeff Finch opened the session and stated that decorum, civility and collegiality are all absolutely essential to a legislature’s effectiveness.  The members’ attitudes and actions in this regard set a tone for all legislative business.  Legislative bodies seem more combative and there is a sense of placing self interest before the public interest.  There is also a sense that legislators are less willing to come to the table, engaging in compromise.  Term limits, negative campaigning, ethics restrictions and time demands can be challenges as well.  What can be done to reinvigorate the legislative body?   Personal relationships are at the center of all this.  Informal breakfasts or other get-togethers are important in rebuilding collegiality.  Jeff also mentioned mentoring programs, outside activities (in Virginia, legislative basketball), retreats with families and acts of positive statesmanship.  Leadership has a huge role to play in preserving collegiality, with members looking to their leaders to set the standards.  Jeff then introduced the panelists. Representative Rob Eissler noted some of the same themes that Jeff raised, and also mentioned the intensity of the news cycle.  What transpires in a legislature is reported and disseminated immediately---there is no longer a cooling off period.  Legislators need to develop an attitude that personally promotes civility and resists the urge to lash out at others.  First, legislators have to develop genuine respect for their fellow lawmakers.  No matter what beliefs you hold, all of you have similar rights and responsibilities and an important job to do.  The respect is also tied to the idea that you never criticize a colleague for voting his or her conscience or constituency.  Rob is known for his humor and he loves to make plays on words.  Although some might groan at the puns, they serve as an icebreaker, they lighten sometimes tense situations and they aren’t threatening.   People also appreciate self-deprecating humor.  It leads into open and honest discussion and helps lawmakers on all sides focus on the ideas, not the personalities of the advocates.   One last suggestion:  call your fellow legislators on their birthdays, just to wish them well.  Rob notes that it really surprises the people who vote differently than you do. Representative Rosie Berger described some of the differences for legislators in Wyoming.  With no personal staff, very few nonpartisan staff, large land areas and a small population, Wyoming legislators must work together creatively in order to be effective.  Many, like Rosie, come to legislating from a background in volunteering, so there is a “roll up your sleeves and get down to work” mentality.  The difference is not so much between Republicans and Democrats as it is between the Legislature and Governor or between different regions of the state.  Rosie has started some bi-partisan news conferences that are designed to explain different areas of legislative action, after which legislators can add partisan news conferences.  She also works with five fellow legislators to do a combined legislative forum, both before and after the session, to get more informed citizen input and reaction.  Finally, Rosie mentioned the trend to increase the amount of time spent on new member orientation.  The last class of freshmen caught on so quickly that veteran legislators joked that they had been trained too well. Former Majority Leader Lana Oleen mentioned five tips for promoting collegiality and effectiveness: Find issue allies.  Having Kansas State University in her district, she spent a lot of time working with her fellow lawmakers who had colleges in their districts. Go to your colleagues’ offices.  You make people comfortable when you meet on their turf.  Get to know their staff as well. Expand your constellation.  Everyone develops a core of friends, people they are comfortable around.  One key for legislators is to push out of that comfort zone and add new colleagues to that core of friends. Truly respect the “rule of no surprises.”  No one likes to look foolish or to be caught off guard.  Whatever you gain in the short term through stealth, you lose much more through the resentment you have caused.  Remember the courtesy of advising a member that you will be bringing amendments to his or her bill. Know your colleagues in the other chamber.  In many legislatures, it is common to focus only on your own legislative body and ignore or criticize the other house.  Build the relationships early, as you can’t wait until you need their support on something. Lana also emphasized the work of Policy Consensus Initiative, a nonpartisan organization that has partnered with NCSL to put on a number of consensus building workshops.  She noted that this joint work has helped legislators understand their power as conveners, as officials who have the ability to bring together citizens and other stakeholders together to solve community problems.  The power of legislators can go far beyond policymaking and the power of the purse.  Lana described the important role that legislators played in holding citizen meetings on the military base reduction issue in Kansas.